Just another question about 351's...

Does anyone know the EXACT difference between the Cleveland and the Windsor 351's? Whether it's specs or design. I'm sure you guys will give me a detailed answer. Thanks you guys!

Scott

 

As for the differencees, it would be easier to tell you what is the same. The onlt thing they have in common is 1. CID and 2. cylinder bore spacing. Other than that they are completely different.

Hope that helps
Don

 

An easy way to think about it is a Windsor, being a Windsor based motor is almost the same as a 302, just a taller deck height. A Cleveland, being FE based, is closer to a 385 series motor being a big block.

 

No - not FE based; the FEs are the big block 352 thru 428s. The 385s are the other big block 370-460s. The Cleveland is in the 335 series family, and they are different than all the rest. They have an cast-in timing cover, dry intake, and canted valve heads (similar to the 385s).

 

So, what you guys are saying, or what I'm getting out of this, is that the Cleveland is like a big block, and a Windsor is like a small block, for the most part....

 

The term small block and big block is more of a Chevy term. But if you must the Cleveland is a smallblock. The Cleveland is a 351 CID engine with canted valve heads cast in the Cleveland, OH engine plant. The 351 Windsor is a 351 CID inline valve engine cast in the Windsor Ontario engine plant.

If you are starting from scratch the Windsor will likely cost less to build for performance purposes due to the large aftermarket offerings. Although there are some new cylinder head offerings from both Edelbrock and CHI.

 

Dude, I obviously know that, but I mean like, it seems like ppl are sayin that the cleveland is a small block that acts like a big block, and a windsor is a small block that acts like a small block... so, lemme ask this, what will the difference be between me putting a cleveland in my car and putting a windsor in my car....

 

from what ive been reading on this board, i think cost is going to be your biggest difference. the cleveland and windsor will both require some fitment mods. i would price the parts required and then look at your planned funds to see which block you can build up more for the remainder of those funds. if money is no object, look at the man o war blocks and see if you can even get a cleveland. again, assemble from there. If your wanting a detailed answer on something more specific, then just ask that specific thing. were all just maverick drivers, not mind readers. we really do want to help

 

Ya know, after I walked away from the computer my poor brain zapped me and I remember this haah.

 

Nothing is obvious at this point you have two threads talking about Cleveland - vs Windsor 351's.

The design is different, they share bore spacing and CID and bellhousing bolt patterns , not many parts interchange between the engines without modifcations.
The Cleveland was offered with 4 bolt mains
The Cleveland is slightly dimensionally larger and heavier than the Windsor
http://www.geocities.com/infieldg/v8enginesizes.html
http://www.fordcobraengines.com/engine_weights.htm

Neither engine was offered by Ford in a Maverick
The Windsor has a larger aftermarket following
Use of either engine will require mechanical and fabrication skills
The Cleveland will be more expensive to build

What exacrly do you want to know?

 

That's not necessarily true, and I hashed it out on another thread here. Looking at S(c)ummit's website, a general rebuild kit, with forged pistons - both run around $489 for a 351C, and $459 for the Windsor. For the most part they are almost identical price-wise, it just depends on what flavor you want. You can't really go wrong with either.

 

That may be true but look at performance cylinder heads and intake manifolds. Not to mention the variety available. Also compare the costs of Stroker kits between the two.
I am not against the Cleveland, actually I have 3 of them and only one Windsor. But if I was to build another engine it would be the Windsor and it would be a stroker.

 

Already said, but you can't base the cost of pistons over the total build, there are a few more pieces than that. As meantioned heads, intakes, also headers, rotating assemblys as a whole. You'll be ahead with the Windsor with money in the bank. A Cleveland really shines in all out racing where those monster heads have the R's to make the HP. Street/strip set ups I'd give the nod to the Windsor every time.

 

Pull up a list of parts - other than stroker kits - and show me the real world price difference. There ain't any. My last 302 cost more than my 351C did to build. The "monster heads" thing doesn't hold water as the Boss351 Mustang was obviously a Cleveland, and was one of the fastest Mustangs - big or small block- ever produced. Not trying to argue, but I've encountered this arguement in every forum I've gone to, and it doesn't hold water at all. Both are great engines, and cost the same to build if you don't stroke them. There I'll concede to the Windsor, and still it isn't by much. You can get more displacement out of the W though.

 

No, it's actually not obvious at all.