1st regarding the maverick... i have a "port-matched" edelbrock performer intake on my 302. i do think its possible to bolt on too much performance on an otherwise "bone-stock" engine. this intake worked very well with a 500 cfm 4 barrell, and suprisingly even better with a 600. well now ive found a "port-matched" performer RPM for $100. obviously this will be the better intake for my engine when i go thru it, and install the matching "go-fast" goodies. has anyone installed this combo on thier maverick? "stock 302+edelbrock performer RPM+edelbrock 600 carb" what should i expect? should i just stick with this already well matched setup, or is there even more improvement to be had? i could just buy and save the new intake until that time comes. im just trying to go as fast as i can efficiently. i require reasonable gas mileage and low end tractibility. the other intake... i need someone in the know on cleveland engines. i have an edelbrock performer intake on my 351C/2V. this car gags badly in the low end. i think the edelbrock intake is a piece of S#!+. i was thinking about buying an offenhauser manifold with dual ports. (for 2V engine) but before i waste the money, id love to hear from anyone who knows about this particular intake. or... your recommendations. the car is a 72 cougar. it has a relatively fresh engine, with RV cam, headers, 3:25 gears, automatic, and LOW compression engine (8:4-1) i need to improve its lowend response. its powerband is 2000 to 4500 rpms, then it disappears fast. thanks roadrage
intake Go ahead and buy that new intake, that way I get the other one, lol, my bud Don Payne knows about those 351c so I'll get with him tommorrow and see whats up.Let you know what I find out..see ya soon Road...Jim
the edelbrock is a good manifold to about 5500 rpm. what is the "RV" cam? what specs? stick or auto? what converter? what carb? the 351C - 2v is a good engine. with the right cam and headers etc. it should be strong to 5500 with that manifold. might like an open carb spacer to help the upper rpm to 6000. bottom end weakness with an rv cam sounds like a tuning problem.
351C intake to answer someone's question... the 72 cougar in question has an automatic (big heavy, C6) the "RV" cam specs go.... (@.050) .286 lift for both intake and exhaust. duration is 214 total lift and duration are .495 X 288 degrees duration. ive read a lot of articles bashing the edelbrock intake for the cleveland engine. it was just a way to allow you to bold on a 4V carb on your 2V motor. the complaint was it wasnt thoroughly tested, and is not considered a performance piece. i think the car's biggest problems are RPM related. it gets plenty of gas flow, but being a heavy car, stock torque converter, and a modest gear... it gets too much gas-too soon. it cant do anything with it until it gets rolling. edelbrock also advertises their intake is good from idle to only 4500 RPMs. i think they are dead right about the 4500 rpm limit, but its way soggy in the bottom end for my liking.
Just to clear something up, no intake manifold that I know of comes "port matched" from the manufacturer. It is practically impossible to buy an intake that will perfectly match the ports on the head. Too many differences in deck heights, head deck thickness, intake port locations, casting shift, blah blah blah....etc.... However, some of the intakes do come "gasket matched" but that doesn't mean that they line up with the ports on the heads. I've never seen or built an engine where the ports "matched" from the manufacturer, it is a long drawn out process to "port match" an intake to a motor and once you've done it, that intake will NOT match up to any other motor!!!
i have known 2 different people who used the performer on 351C 2v motors with reasonable success. both had good bottom end power and ran up to around 5500 rpm. one added a 2 inch open spacer and ran decently to almost 6000 rpm. one used a 700 holley and the other a 750. both were using cams with .050 duration in the 225 deg area with about .5 inches of lift. both had 3.55 gears and one had a mild converter on his C-6. the other had a stock converter on a C-4. the last car i had a 214 deg cam in would only go to about 4700 rpm and then kind of die out. the edelbrock performer can work well for you. they usually have good throttle response if all else is working right. i really think you have something else limiting your rpm and hurting your bottom end power
You shouldnt have a problem with the setup on the 351C. You need to do some tuning somewhere. It should not stumble at all. Yep, the car is heavy but the motor can handle it.
For the 302, i wouldn't bother with the RPM intake. It is designed for higher RPMs, and won't agree with the stock cam and stock heads that you have on the 302. If you get a good deal on it, though, hang on to it or sell it! For the cleveland, i'm with everyone else, it sounds like a tuning problem. The clevelands have big enough valves and ports to easily support a 4bbl carburetor, even with the 2V heads. If you have a stumble or a soggy bottom end it could be a lot of things...check timing, and see if the accelerator pump is delivering what it should be.
clevelands are persniggity animals. ive owned several. the 4V engine in my 72 mustang was not too good. low end driveability sucked. maybe if i'd had higher compression, a stall speed, and stouter gear, it'd been pretty tough. if you punched the accelerator from a dead stop, it'd either barely move, or it'd backfire and just die. it was a fresh/professionally built motor. it ran fine, but always stumbled under load. when i threw together an engine for my 72 cougar, i didnt want to have the same problems as the 4V headed cleveland gave me. i figured if i stayed modest with cam and other parts, i wouldnt have the same problems. to be honest... its just a watered down version of the problem. i'd love to defend the honor of the cleveland engine. but to be honest.. there's gotta be some reason ford abandoned it, and never came back. nobody talks about them. aftermarket parts are few, and of ancient technology. i personally think its a unoverated, BUT servicable engine. i like to think i keep my car is the best state of tune. ive played with carburetors and timing, etc. i used splitfire plugs and used a high dollar mallory distributor to ignite it. if anyone has a proven formula for going fast in a cleveland, id sure love to look @ your recipe. back to the 302 intake... my intake ports have been hogged out to match the gasket. not the head. the "performer rpm" intake has allegedly recieved the same treatment. ive decided against buying the used part. for about $40 more i can get a shiney new one, or a weiand "stealth", which id prefer anyhow. i dont know if dude's custom work is competent or not. it could have boogered up threads or surfaces. im just gonna play it safe and stick with what i got for now. its a nice setup. thanks for the interest and replies
any motor that spits, backfires or dies when floored is just out of tune someplace. probably the carb or timing. you just ship all those cleveland parts up here. they make killer engines when set up right. the boss 302 ran decently in a heavy car and it had the same heads as the 351 4V! thats okay. you think what you want to about them. more parts for us other ford nuts.
yada yada a cleveland is an engine that does not need to be compromised. those big valves feed the combustion chambers too fast. this is why people who race cleveland's use "port stuffers" or "restrictor plates" inside the intake ports. you get too much gas too soon, and you just drown the poor engine out. if your cleveland has a 4;11 gear , 11:7 compression, standard transmission (so you can raise the RPM's before launching), and no power accessories.. yeah.. its an awsome motor! my 3;25, 8;4-1, (heavy) C-6 automatic is not an awesome motor. i definitely think this car needs a stall speed, and a better intake manifold. there are some RPM ranges where this engine really accels. i just wish it was a torquey motor with a lot of launch. this car is best suited for passing semi's on the interstate. im not trying to comdemn the cleveland motor. i need to do whatever i can to get this thing running as strong as i think it needs to be. i sincerely doubt that tuning is the problem. the problem is probably in the engineering. i need to find a way to burn all that gas thats getting there too quick, or find a way to slow it down.
I agree with most of the above. But....he is running 2V heads which do not have the same flow problems as the 4V. I am running a stock 1970 4V with an RV cam, cast exhaust, performer intake, 750 Holley Vac and 3:50 gears. It is a little sluggish off the line but it runs an 8.5 in the 1/8 smoking the tires for about 100 ft. in a 3700 lbs car. No hesitation what so ever when I stomp on the gas. Most people do not even realize that there is more low end potential in the motor by restricting the flow. This should not be why his motor bogs. Clevelands can produce awesome amounts of power and I would have to say they are not outdated for what most of us do to our cars. Ford dumped them because of emission standards and the fact that they dumped their performance lines.
thought this was a 2v cleveland which means the valves are normal sized? about the same as an average sbc? should run just fine. shouldn't spit or backfire, unless it has other oblems.
SBC vs 351C 2V clevelands do not have "normal" sized valves. the big 4V cleveland has gigantic 2.19 inch valves, and the "lil" 2V's have a very healthy (oversized) 2.05. if you really want to compare it to a small block chevy... the typical SBC has 1.94 intake valves, and the legendary "double-hump" heads have only 2.02. still smaller than the 2V cleveland which everyone claims flows like a champ. AGAIN.. too much gas, too fast, and not enough RPMS to overcome the initial "flood" is the problem. i tire of the tuning comment. EVERYTHING has been tried with exception of recurving the distributor. i can get a silky smooth idle, from a punch the car is fast. it runs good. now what can i do to create the missing low end torque that a low compression (from factory 8:4-1) engine lacks? id really appreciate some more creative/constructive responses. blaming the state of tune is insulting to the many competent mechanics and friends who've tried to help me. ALL my other clevelands had the same low end end hiccup. its a cleveland tradition
