Is anyone using these heads? They are the Windsor Jrs. I picked up a set that had 500 miles on them for 200.00. Good friend of mine had them and bought a set of AFR heads and needed some money. Thats why I got them at that price. I'm fixing to buy a set of rocker arms 1.5's from comp cams and was wondering what size pushrod I would need to get. I'm thinking 6.8's but not sure. Still need to buy my intake and carb. I'm bought a set of Doug Thorley headers a few months ago at a good price also. As you might gather from my post everything I'm doing is on a strickt budget. Any recommendations on pushrods and rockerarms would be great. Tomm
1.5's? Your camshaft is going to seem awfully small. You should be using 1.6 rockers. As for the pushrods, call summit and get the kit to measure what you need.
Should be some good heads for you. The only things to consider in iron vs aluminum is the weight and the compression. Iron weighs about 40 lbs more total... that is an effective 4 hp loss to aluminum. Iron doesn't dissapate heat as well, so it will max out at about 1 pt of compression less than aluminum can handle. Generally 10 hp. Summary: You have some really good heads at a great price. You know now that you lost approx. 14 rwhp potential with the decision, but you got a great price! I agree that 1.5s are counter-productive. I also agree that measuring for pushrod length is the way to go in a perfect world, but stock lengths with adjustable rockers should be just fine. Dave
Ray and Dave, thanks for the info. Like I said I'm trying to do this on a budget and I couldn't pass up on the heads. What do you suggest for the rockerarms. I was looking at comp cam rockers. Still trying to figure what cam and intake kit to buy also. I would like this car to get into the high 12's. Have a couple of mopar friends that need a ford lesson in the worse way. But, I'm not trying to break the bank doing it. Thanks, Tomm
I ran Cam Dynamics aluminum rollers with good results. They are now marketed as Crane parts. They are the lowest cost full rollers that I know of. I didn't like the roller tips. I never had one break, but I have heard of a lot of others that had problems with them when used beyond "RV" status. If you want to get 13 flat or better, stay away from RV parts. Dave
I have a buddy who had a set of stock 5.0 heads ('93 Mustang) on his-'93 LX. He had several hundred dollars worth of work done on them, porting etc. He bought the World Products iron heads-I 'don't know which model, and saw zero performance increase above the modified stock heads. He then upgraded to Edelbrock Aluminum heads and found more performance gains. I suspect that World iron heads are better than standard 1970's heads by quite a bit, but probably not much more than late model 5.0 type heads. Then again, it all depends on the entire package. Seth
I have a nice set of ported Windsor J/R's but did not use them due to the location of the spark plugs on these heads. With my Hooker 6901's a couple of spark plugs hit the header tubes. I figured even with short plugs I would be burning up plug wires. Before you go to far, bolt the headers up to the heads and check your clearance. I am running Crower Enduro 1.6 roller rockers. As far as pushrod length you should really measure to determine what you need. If you are running a later roller block the pushrods length will be different than an early model hydraulic lifter application. Make sure you get heat treated pushrods to be compatible with the guideplates.
ratio411.....if i read your post correctly,your telling him that he will loose 14hp by switching to an aftermarket head??
just use em; they're good heads. he feels you are losing 14 hp compared to the aluminum equivilent. not always true. the cast iron can make more hp because they retain cylinder head heat which up to a certain point allows the engine to make more power than alum heads. alum heads are loved because of: 1. less weight 2. easier to port out than cast iron 3. easier to repair if they get damaged we were doing up a top dragster motor a few years ago and the eng builder asked if we wanted cast iron block and heads or alum. the cast iron was worth about 90 hp more than the alum setup. you got some good heads at a great price. enjoy them.
He was implying by going with iron over aluminum he was losing 14hp. However in most street engines IMO it is not a concern. Iron retains heat in the combustion chamber there by promoting more combustion. However the heat dissapation of aluminum allows usually a full point higher which is around 4 percent power increase.Figure in the weight savings of the aluminum head is a gain (however minimal). Then again iron in my expierence is more duarable. It is toss up and really depends on what kind of motor you are building. Its all in the mix............. As was mentioned in this thread A set of ported factory heads vrs windsor jrs and no apparent gain. If the port job was stellar I would agree(full professional job) Just remember the windsor jrs can still be ported for more gains. Not to mention a great price and not much more than having your old heads redone without expensive port work. Keep on keeping on.........
Tomm: You got good heads (fingers crossed) at an unbelievable price (where am I when all these deals go down, man ). Be glad. And I agree that they should flow equivalent to well ported stockers (your WP's still being unported on that assumption of course). The basics, assuming to these heads are going on a 302: pushrods- will basically depend on the lifters (cam type). Is it mechanical or hydraulic rollers, mechanical or hydraulic flat tappets??? The rollers are longer, thus requiring shorter pushrods (ie. late model 5.0 length or close there too). Flat tappets are the shorter of the two and use the longer of the two pushrods. And be sure they are heat treated (induction hardening they call it) for guide plate use, since your heads are likely set up for them. World Product heads are usually set up for 3/8" screw-in-studs (if memory serves) guide plates, and thus an adjustable valvetrain. So go ahead and get roller rockers (1.6 ratio is common among Ford small block OHV valvetrains and is what aftermarket cams are generally marked for on the cam card. And I'm assuming you are going with an aftermarket cam here too...) Prices are pretty cheap on decent roller rockers these days. Don't forget to obtain poly locks for the rockers, sometimes they don't come with the rocker arms, depending on who they are from... Headers- I 2nd the gentleman's advice to bolt up the headers while off the vehicle to check on spark plug/wire to header interference. You can solve much on the bench here.... Imagine my surprise when I did this check on my GT-40P's on the driver's side bank (doohh!) I saved myself a lot of headaches though, realizing I needed custom headers for the driver's side, ONLY, before installing in my Mave.. You can do this check now. WP's have nearly the same spark plug angle as stock. Can't remember if they move the spark plug closer to the exhaust valve in that head or not :confused: ). Hopefully the headers you have will fit... Head gasket- nothing unusual here, stock stuff. Pay attention to recommended torque values (typically Fel-Pro) and sequencing (clean bolts or getting new ones is a good idea, chase block threads and lubricate the long top bolts upon installation. Now, the short bottom row of head bolts go into the block's water jacket so use either Gray Bolt Prep, Ultra Black, or High Temp Red sealer by Permatex or equivalent on the threads)... Intake Gasket- if using aluminum intake (probably so), the gasket must have ease of compressability so use Fel-Pro FPP-1250, or FPP-1262, or equivalent by Mr Gasket (5834 I think it is). The 1250 has smaller intake port openings of the two, so make sure it clears (the intake port gasket opening is given in Fel Pro literature) if using it. 1/4 bead of RTV on the block ends, instead of the notorious for falling out/in cork gasket rails... Piston to valve clearance- Be sure to check! so that mr piston and mr valve dont get introduced... The heads have larger than stock valves (Don't worry, I wont described using the dial indicator on this one, just to long. Besides, I'm probably putting you guys to sleep right now )... And if the cam gets more than around 470 lift at the valve, you need to at least check it to be sure and prevent issues from occuring later. Hope this helps. I have more but im getting sleepy... Raymond
No. I was just using the effective gain by using aluminum heads. Some folks say iron makes more power because it holds in heat... But: The extra heat makes detonation an issue a full compression point before it becomes an issue with aluminum heads. Then the weight loss is not a power gain from the engine, but is equal to 4 rwhp free'd up from the power/weight relationship. I have read some really successfull engine builders' take on heat in the engine and though heat is considered power, they make the point that it is the potential heat that matters, once it permiates the structure of the engine (iron), it no longer has power potential and is a liability. If you ever get a chance, read some Smokey Yunick stuff... he's an engine building genius and built the engines to prove it. Anyway... I wasn't downing the purchase of iron heads. I just threw that info out as a tid-bit for thought. I actually think he did very well doing what he did considering the power to buck ratio. Dave
I ran an extremely ported and polished set once. They were much better than the stock E7's I had. I later went to AFR185's which was even gooder. But for the price, you can't beat what you did (IMHO). I paid $700 for my used ones (and got $700 back). BTW, I vote 1.6 rockers too.
