Today i raced a new vette, and it was really irritating because i've got NO traction! I spun first and second, and when i hit third i almost rear-ended him because he thought it'd be cute to merge. So, i need traction! I have an 8" rear w/ 3.55's and posi. I have relatively big 255/60/15's on the rear...they're not the best tire, but i'll put a better one on once these wear out (but i can't go too sticky because i have a T-5). I also have subframe connectors. I was thinking cal-tracs...will they help me, even if my tires aren't the greatest? It doesn't seem like i'm getting wheel-hop, except at the track...is that what the cal-tracs correct, or will they actually help plant my wheels? If i do go the cal-tracs route, i will be making them myself, does anyone have pictures? Is there anything else i can do besides cal-tracs to help with traction?
Try this Start out with a little less clutch... just don't let it break loose in the first place...this is hard to do with cheap tires (I know). Driving with bad rubber is alot like driving with plastic "Big Wheel" tires! You should relize you're tires are spinning before you pop the clutch into second gear too. Did the Vet hook-up pretty good?
Not sure you can really cure the problem running a stick shift trans. The driving style is a factor and without "sticky" tires, can't forsee much help. Higher gear ratio and some other engine mods would help but then you may sacrifice some quikness and speed results etc. There is a possibility of changing the pinion angle on the rear end but is a tricky procedure involving repositioning the spring pads. Some use a tapered shim under them but this has proven to not be the safest or lasting way to do it. I have a set of homemade cal trac type bars that worked real well for us, will try and get pics soon as I can get out to the storage building etc. fairly simple to do using blk iron pipe and farm supply rod ends etc. Adjusting launch rpm's and feathering the clutch is another thing we did in the days of mostly three and four speeds. Really don't see a problem using sticky tires with the T-5. Are they not solid enough to take that stress or is there some other reasons. Just trying to find out some info on them myself. If the Vette was a later model, they have a rear suspension that clones a four link setup or the like and that is a better traction enhancer than leaf springs anyway. Nuff said on that subject for now.
The other thing is the vette has traction control, i run a set of bfg drag radials on my monte ss and at the track the vettes still get a better launch. I can catch em on the top, but they still get me out the hole. guess in some cases electronics can be a wonderful thing!!
Thanks for all the responses guys. I actually "launched" as if i were normally accelerating from the light (i don't like to initiate things), but he gassed it first and i followed. The minute i put the pedal down the tires were gone and it was time to shift. Second likes to get really squirrely (i'm all over the place) but it moves, sorta. I will definitely work on my launches though. My car is kinda funny because it doesn't lose traction until about 3,000rpm (i have a soggy bottom-end, i need to do some tuning). It was a C5 vette, not sure what year, and i know they have infinitely better suspension (and seeing as how his tires never spun i'm sure he had traction control turned on). I've been hesitant about putting anything too sticky on with the T5 because it is getting close to needing a rebuild and they are only rated for about 300ft-lbs. At my elevation (5300ft) i'm making a lot less, but it's my daily driver so i have to be nice to it. I have heard about using dirt track tires, supposedly they are "in-between" slicks and radials, any thoughts on those? Maybe i could run them in the summer and save my radials for the winter? They're in my budget at $75 ea., and a local guy who uses them says they last him quite a while. The main part of the cal-tracs that i'm confused on is where the front eyelet mounts up...do the triangular pieces mount right up against the leaf spring, or on the outside of where the frame supports the spring? I was also looking at Competition Engineering's "Slide-a-link", it looks very similar: http://store.summitracing.com/productdetail.asp?p=3812 OldGuy, what engine mods are you talking about? Just things to slow it down a little, or shift the powerband up? Thanks again!
like the saying goes.. "you can have all the horsepower in the world, but if you can't get it to the ground it means nothing!"... well ok on a roll maybe we have a 360 hp to the wheels car at work (with a stick) and its great on a roll but its really hard to hook up and you do have to feather the car. to me if you gotta feather your car then your just missing out on what the car could really do! to me cal tracs are kinda high in price.. i like them but they are expensive! as for your questions about where they mount the front mounts on the front eye of the leaf with a alum bushing. a cheap way is you could try a lenthen your pinion snubers so its a bit closer the the pinion... i aways left about a good inch between. another way is to get them cheap bolt on traction bars.. not the best they tend to bend leaf springs but they do help! i mean my car ran high 12s with this set up... and it did hook. better then with no traction bars. but dollar for dollar a good set of tires would do it! drag radials are a nice way to go but they are costly! sounds like you drive this puppy every day too... so that also might not be the way to go... they get bald fast! I have also tried mickey thompson sportman I's before and they aren't all that bad over all. tires tires tires! i'd rather be the chase'e then the chaser!
CACollo- I 'm not sure what you heard about dirt tires but, I've raced dirt for awhile and there are alot of different tires out there for dirt... from hard to sticky / soft... no matter which one you go with, the dirt tire is going to get hard and worthless if you build that much heat in the rubber. You'll get about one good night out of them and that it. Stick with the Street / Drag tire. Maverick Man- I read your input on the traction bars bending the leaf springs. I'm looking at putting traction bars on my Maverick. How bad of an effect does this have on your leaf springs. I'll be running a c-6. I'm making it for strip / street use. HP would be very close to what you mentioned you have. I too am looking at mid to upper 12's for ET's. What other advice or routes would you suggest. Are you still using Traction Bars or have you come up with a different set up.
Well most universal traction bars are the same length. if you look under your car where you would mount the universals one side will not hit the eye of the leaf where it should be... at least on maverick with staggered shocks (not too sure if early models have it that way?) it hits the leaf before before the eye, therefore bending it leaf in that area over time. again.. theses were with the way cheapy ones $39.95. I don't know about the more expensive ones that go over the axle if they have the same problem. actullay the car has ran with the new year old motor a 1.61 60 ft with those same cheap slapper bars and 7.60s in the 1/8th! (see picture.. sorry its a bad picture Steve at hot rod took it blame him lol!) and thats launching at 3800 to 4000. i think it could have done way better if i changed it. thats why i went to the cal tracs.. i haven't got to test them at the track yet but they seem to be good on the street.. (not lauching it at 4k). but i will tell you this they do need to be tuned to the car... i'm sure cometgt1974 can explain on that one. as for the dirt times i agree with you.. they do get hard but i use to smoke the hell out of them and it was all i could afford! thats the Mickey Thompsons "Sportman I"s I use to run on the street. I guess that's way you knew they were dirt track tires. my buddys also use to run McCurry Tires (i can't spell!) which were dirt track tires too! I thought they work really well for what i had untill the car broke low 13's and ran inconsitant low 13s!! I was in high school so to me at the time they were way cheaper then a slick and they didn't have a Drag Raidal at the time and they were DOT. I drove them everywhere
Most of you are dancing around the subject by trying various remedies. To be serious about traction, the car's center of gravity has to be found, it's instant roll center, the percentage of rise and anti squat. Geting all these things dialed in could get you 60' time in the 1.20 range and still pull the front off the ground and little wheel spin. There is a pickup truck with a 557 BBF with a 200 hp shot of gas making 1000 hp. The thing about this is the weight. 3620 lbs total with....get this.....2600 front and 920 on the rear with big slicks. Guess what? It's 60' times are in the1.27 second range with all the above points addressed. So there is a lot more to it than just changing a few items. It ivolves front shock rates, front spring rates, rear spring rates, pinion angle, tire loading, axle control and a bunch more. Face it, the vette is engineered from the factory with suspension so advanced that to try to run with it is foolish. You can't beat everthing that comes into view with an old street car and a little extra power. If you want an education about all this look up www.baselinesuspensions.com then sit down and think about it awhile. Good luck.
bluegrass has an excellent point! Also, to add my .02, the 'vettes have independent rear ends with awesome geometry...there used to be a guy at the local digs that ran one with everyday street tires and a 600 HP smallblock. They didn't spin much because the car's rear design planted them evenly. This is also evident in the FOX body mustangs. Next to a 'vette or viper, I'd have to say the FOX 4-link is one of the best out there. that being said, it is possible to get a Mav to hook well too...but it takes a lot of time and well thought out combination. I feel your pain....Remember the turbo 302? Mine was about the same way....would smoke 'em in any gear at any speed because it was a peg-leg 2.79 8" rear. The home-made posi worked much better, but it still left a lot to be desired. There is a book out there called "Doorslammers" that is a lot of help, I'd suggest checking it out. Good luck
I had a '77 I ran in VA, and the only traction aid I had was a pinion snubber that I hand made from Unistrut and the stock snubber. Later, I got a traction bar snubber, and had better adjustability. The unistrut gave me the ability to adjust it in 1/2" increments, so larger tires, cold and heat were not too much of a problem. Car launched well, and best of all, no wheel hop, not even on street tires. Hope this helps. Earl
Thanks Guys... I will agree with you BlueGrass... racing dirt cars has given my chassis guy one hell of an education. Everything from the cars center, body roll, forward bite... you name it, everything on the car has to play it's roll in order to work proper. I've been looking at traction bars for the last week. I've seen these so called "New designed" traction bars made from Competition Engineering called "Slide-A-Link" Do any of you guys know much about these? Are they worth spending a little more? I found them in the JEG's mag / item number 247-2100. It shows a fit for 65-70 Mustangs. Would that work or not? JEGS Slide-A-Link
Those are the other ones i was looking at...they're about the same as cal-tracs, which are supposed to work well. Thanks for the links to sites to look at, and book suggestions. It's frustrating
I was looking through my Summit catalog again, so bear with me... What about a ladder bar, or a 4-link setup? I don't know much about either, but it appears that they're not that expensive (and i can weld, so that's a plus). In fact, they're less than traction bars--good ones at least. Can i use either with leaf springs? Would they work better than cal-tracs or slide-a-link? Looking at it today, it looks like there are some good spots to run the ladder bars to. It sounds like they need to be set up, but i'm willing to learn how to do all this stuff....i already know how to measure pinion angle, but i need to learn where to set it to and why
