Question with a 460 into a maverick...help please.

I have a 71 mustang that I could put the motor into with ease, but I am having second thoughts as I have thought more and more about the weight. At first I wanted to put the 460 (stroked to 520) into a Maverick, then I realized it would be a PITA. Now I think that I want to put it into a Mav. I have heard 2 different ways of doing this:

Mustang II front end, or chopping/shaving the shock towers.
Does anybody have any recomendations to help me out with? Has anyone done this?
The transmission will be a TKO 5 speed. The car is going to be a STRIP/street.

Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given

 

That's gonna be one nose-heavy son of-a-gun. You'll definitely need subframe connectors and a roll bar/cage to handle the torque.

It can be done but be prepared for a LOT of fabrication and modification. It certainly won't be the same car when you get done with it...

 

MightyMach

Aluminum heads, water pump, intake, radiator...It will certainly be a light weight motor as far as big blocks go. I have access to some free mavericks from my girl friends dad (owns a wrecking yard) so he will also be able to get me a M II front end as well. What kind of room will this allow for with headers? The car will most definately have a full cage, and sub frame connectors as this is going to be a STRIP /street. Any, and all help is very appreciated!

Jeff Given

 

You will need a 9" rear and tubbed out.
My feeling is that there is to much weight up front to far for good bite.
Keep the motor as far back as you can and as high for good weight transfer.
It's going to be like steering a Tiger by the tail.
With that much torque all areas will need attention.
Good luck.

 

I suspect anything is going to be tough with "that much" torque...

I really do not want to tub it out either...I will if I have to, but I know there are a lot of FAST cars with a lot more power that are not tubbed. Anyone else with any specifics? Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given

 

Also...How would I go about placing the motor back farther?

Seems like a ton more work! actually...a lot moe work than I am willing to endure...same thing with a buddy of mine...his builder tried to tell him to put the motor in his falcon farther back...needless to say he is using a big car now....not what I want to do. Like I said, I wanna go M II front end, and Maverick. Put the motor in where it "wants to be" weld in sub frame connectors and cage, and stiffen it every possible place. As if I need to make it any harder...I do not know what year the mavericks are but they do have to be pre 73 for smog laws here in California. Thanks a lot!

Jeff Given

 

the M2 front end will give you plenty of room. See the "useful topics" forum for more info/detail on the swap.

It aint hard, but it does open up a whole other can of worms.

 

If you can give me a month and a half I should be able to answer how well it will transfer weight when I mocked mine up I set the motor back as far as possible(as in you cannot remove the upper bell housing bolts and stock fire wall) my car has full interior sub frame conectors 6 point cage and the mII front end and fender well exit headers.......If you look back on my posts you can see what I mean and mavman just got thru installing his mII front end as well......I have my car set up with 26X10.0 slicks and a coilover ladder bar rear 9" with 3:70's and moser full spool and axles.........my plans are to set the new motor and tranny in next weekend.

 

You have to define what you are expecting to accomplish with the end result. Then fitting the combo to best achive the goal. Being fast is just a relitive term.
One cannot put 514 cu/on in without large slicks that require tubbing to get them under the car in a reasonable manner then also run the car on the street and expect to be competitive.
From what I have seen over the years, the big block installations are not as sucessful in this type of car, as the smaller lighter blocked motors that have been bored and stroked, if reasonable sucess at the strip is to be expected.
There was a big block Maverick not 15 miles from me that has been running for years that has not been a big winner at the strip and was finally up for sale this last summer.
I'm not trying to pick a disaggreement but I've been around this long enough to see the common sense of the whole thing.
Go 408 W SB and be far ahead rather than do all the work for impression and less than the best results.
Alum head 514 BB weighs 670 lbs.
Alum headed 393/408 SB weighs 545 lbs.
Difference is already more than a tenth of a second just from the weight difference not counting the losses from not getting traction. If using iron heads on the BB then it gets worse yet.
This all has to be made up in HP that make the other problems more difficult yet.
Good luck.

 

And as I have learned HERE you will take a certain amount of ridacule for installing a big block in your car in the first place I find it quite odd that alot of folks like the mavericks/comets because everyone does'nt have one.......but when you want to be different by installing somthing other than a "penut" (small block) then they want to be negative:confused: anyway I just thought I'd post my views on this as well.......to be honest thats why I have not been posting pics from my progress on my car here but over on matt's site........ohwell to each thier own by the way mine is cast headed as well.........gee I guess I should just cut the car up and buy me an old lincoln and put it in there.......

 

NICE!

Thanks Robert...I emailed you last night....If you don't mind, what costs are involved with switching over to the M II front end? I would like to do this as cheaply as possible, and as I have said I can get the MII front end for free.

The 520 is built. 700 hp with 10.8:1 compression; going to a small block is in no way going to happen. Robert, are you, or have you tubbed out your maverick?

Jeff Given

 

In the stang, calculators are saying it will, or COULD run 10.6's. I am looking to run faster than the Mustang.

Thanks.

Jeff Given

 

Big vs Small

Just my opinion, reading the fellows posts and kind of getting the feeling he wants a fairly cheap way to HP, stay with the small block stroker and if need be add some cheater laughing gas. 700 hp and all that torque is going to fry any tire other than 12 or 14 inchers and good suspension. There is no getting around cubic inch for all out horsepower but it all has to get to the ground to be fast. For a show only deal, get a Hemi with a blower and make em all go bugeyes. The only way I see to use the "Big Blocks" is to get a complete chassis kit and slip a Mav body over it. Look at cup cars, they are all pretty much the same chassis with a sheetmetal replica of a Ford or Chevy or Dodge. Just about bet in a 1/4 mile race the stroker peanut motor will win almost every time if the cars are street legal chassis. Here is one from my old days, guy had polio and could not use clutch so built a 40 Ford coupe with a 455 Olds in the rear. He sat in the engine compartment with a plexiglas window in the nose of the hood. Used a hydro trans, ran decent and was the object of everyones attention. To be differecnt is to be admired, especially for all the work and money involved.

 

Hey Robert....

...sit back for a minute, please.

Mad, when you post a question on a forum like this you are going to get a wide range of responses. Some of the responses are going to be merely that, responses. The guys who developed this forum designed it to give answers to good questions like the one that you have.

Different people have different desires. Lord knows we have a ton of people who breeze in here, post a question about a project and want an answer quickly. Some of them find an answer. Some get opinions on plans for their car. Some get the correct answer, then ask the same question in a different way.

There are people here who make their living working on or around cars. There are others that have lots of experience restoring, building, and even racing cars. There are others who don't know the firing order on our own cars. So, be prepared to get a plethora of opinions, comments, responses of course, and yes we can supply an answer as well.

The one common trait found in a new poster like yourself, and in the regular posters as well, is that we don't have a clue as to what your skills are. We don't know if you are mechanically inclined or not. There is no test given at the door. We get lots of folks who have big dreams that they never realize when it comes to their car because they lack the technical ability, funds or tools to complete the job. We don't know where you will come out on this. Many of the new posters here stick around for a week and then we never hear from them again. They go back to their world, usually not completing what they asked about here on this forum.

The general consensus is that since these cars came from the factory designed to carry a small block Ford engine, that is the easiest building block to create a performance vehicle with.
Once you get into other powerplants, these guys are correct, you better have some skills if you want it done right. It's that or a resoruceful sphere of friends/family who have those needed talents.

Putting your desired powerplant in a Maverick can be done. Just don't miss the point, it is not as easy as the small block route.
Nobody here is going to tell you that you are making a mistake for going for the 385 series . Despite the previouse post, I don't see many people here get ridiculed. I truly believe that if anyone here is discouraged from going for the big block conversion, that it is because the responder gets the impression that someone may be over their head. It is important that you understand these points, in my opinion.

Good luck with your project. Bluegrass and Old Guy are two of our most experienced posters. Bluegrass is a technical wiz-he has an EFI 5.0 '73 Comet.
Old Guy has mucho anos experiencia in various forms of racing.
I think that he has seen it all.

Robert is obviously in the process of what you want to experience regarding big block mill conversions. I truly hope that as one of our state reps he will post detailed descriptions and pictures of his progress.


Sincerely-

Seth

 

Re: Hey Robert....

Here I am coming back to apologise if I did come off a bit rough. I am not *THE* guy to do this...but I do have a number of resources that can help me out....family, and friends.


While I am being very persistant here it is only because nobody has given me an answer (with all due respect). I get people here telling me to build a small block stroker, but as I have said the 520 is BUILT already. And again, I am being persistant--why? Because I want an answer...if you tell me it cannot, or should not be done, tell me why. As I stated there are a lot of fast cars that are running faster than me, making more power than me, and lighter than me that are not tubbed. As I said I do not want to tub it...if it absolutely needed it, I would.

I am not trying to come into your forum and be an a-hole, I am just looking for a good answer. So I will try to rephrase my entire question:

*I have access to 2 free mavericks.

*I have access to a free MII front end.

*I have a 520 BBF all built (done).

*I would like to put it into a maverick, and still be...streetable enough to get 50 miles on it a week (if I wanted to drive it).

*I have access to the right resources to be able to do the swap.

*I want to run in the mmid to low 9's.

***What do I need to do in order to accomplish this goal? If it is not very realistic why? You guys tell me it needs a lot of tire under it, but Why does the Maverick need so much tire underneath it as compared to any other car? Assuming that I did most of the work myself, what else is needed, and what is an approx. cost of stuffing a 385 series into the car?***



That's about it guys. I am looking to do this on as much as a budget as I can--hence free Mavericks, and free MII front end.

Thank you guys!

Jeff Given