As someof you might know, I own a 1977 f-250. I has the carburated 351 M Smallblock motor and in recent research I was learning that in the last two years of M Block production the 1 ton (350) trucks came with fuel injection. I have learned allot of what I need to do a fuel injection conversion but am puzzled. What was the last two years of the M block!? I have two of these motor one of which will go in my mav when I get it. So Im gonna do the test run in my truck and see how well it works out. I appreciate any help.
I wasn't aware that M engines or 400's had EFI on them. Especially not in the F350's. F350s were carb'd through about '87 with 460's, and I can't imagine them having a 400 or 351M with EFI. '82 was the last year for M engines, IIRC. From then on, the 3/4 ton and 1 tons had 351w, 6.9 IDI, or 460's again going off of my ailing memory. EFI wasn't really used until about '84-ish and even then it was a very crude EFI that used throttle body and MAP style injection...which left a LOT to be desired as far as performance. The SVO's had multi-port injection, but used a VAM instead of a MAF, but they work similarly in operation by measuring airflow and adjusting pulsewidth and timing accordingly. I can't imagine a M engine having anything but a CFI (throttle body injection) on it...and even then, good luck trying to modify it. That was the sorriest excuse for a injection system that Ford ever designed and there are many, many people who will agree with me! Not saying that they weren't made, but I have never heard of or seen one. Why put a M engine in a Maverick? Dare to be different I guess...but it's gonna be a nighmare to make it fit if you plan on using the stock front end. Good luck & keep us up to date on progress.
m engine in a maverick. along with he whole dare to be different thing. I have 2 of them. What are thew main differences between carb motor and throttle body injection. Since it is not direct injection what makes it better (if it doednt make it worse)
Well,,, if you are going the 351m-400 engine. I would either go with the stock 400 innards or a 400 stroker kit. Tim Meyers has pistons and kits to wake up these engines. http://www.tmeyerinc.com/ is the web site for info. I bought the project 400 an very happy with it! Tim is a wealth of info and one heck of a fellow! The 351m is not a small block. it uses the same tranny as a 460. You may have a newer 351w engine. The 77 if factory would be a m engine. Check out Tim's site for great info, parts. Call an tell Tim want you want. They just put a 500+ horse (was dyno'd) fuel injected 434 stroker together. Tell Tim Dave Stuckey sent you. Good Luck.
There is a wide chasm between "dare to be different" and "flushing money on a turd". The M engines were pigs and a pain in the butt to try to hot rod. Not to mention fitting one into a Maverick engine bay is going to be one hell of a hassle. This is a project you might want to seriously reconsider.
Both motors are M's theres no doubt in that. but people will go back and forth on big block small block. I know the motors have big block bell housings. In any case I was never disapointed in the M engines my family has owned and thought they were good motors. I know allot of people are gonna try to talk me out of it but I wanna try it. Im not even close to starting the project so I got time to think this out. Im mainly doing my research right now
Okay, as long as you are sure they are the m-335 series engine. I just never heard small block just big block on the 351m-400 engines. I don't correct the big-small block yammer. Just wanted to make sure you had the m. Gonna be tighter than the Cleveland with the taller deck. You wanna do it,, you can do it! Good Luck! Don't forget to check out Tim Meyer site
FYI: 351M is a M engine...which stands for "modified cleveland". The 400 was never referred to as an M engine. How often do you see 400M on the valve cover sticker? Never. That's always been one of my pet peeves....calling a 400 an M engine even though it was never designated as part of the M series. The 351M was referred to the M because Ford already had 2 other 351" engines. The windsor and the Cleveland. Ok, now that I'm off that subject, the 351M and 400 were never considered big blocks. They have the exact same bore spacing as the 221-260-289-302-351w-351c engines, the same main bearings as the windsor, same rod journals as a windsor and basically the same heads as a 351c. They ARE small blocks in ever word, but they do have a 385 series bellhousing (think 370-429-460) and oddball block mounts which resemble (but are not identical) the 460's. In fact, the 351M and 400 share more with the small blocks than they do with the big blocks. Basically all the M & 400 are is a tall deck cleveland with different engine mounts and big block bellhousing. BTW, some of the very early 400's had dual bellhousing patterns...one for the typical smallblock and one for the 385 series engine. I'll see if I can dig up a picture of the back of the block of one of these oddballs. Some of the 400's came with C4's on them too...and the big block C4 bellhousings are worth some $$$ to the right people. The downsides to the 400 & 351M are the fact that they are just as wide as a 460, almost as tall, a little shorter lengthwise though....and quite heavy for a small block. The 400 has a 4" stroke though which lends itself to a good torque curve with the right parts selection. Most of the 400's had around 8:1 compression, some of them even less, and the 351M was what...7.6? It wasn't much. EVERY 400 I've seen in the yards had a bad main bearing or two and some of them in daily driven trucks always seemed to pick up a main knock after a few hundred thousand miles. 400's have good torque down low but they WHEEZE from 3500 RPM and up. Just think about how a 4.9 big six runs and you know how a 400 runs. Now, the main thing is the size...since they're as wide and nearly as tall as a 460, wouldn't it make more sense to have a 460 in there since it fits just as well....if not better?? Plus, the 460 has a LOTT more potential. 500 HP from a 460 is a total breeze and can be done with iron heads with some cleanup on the bowls and ports. If that's not enough, it's entirely possible to have 700+ HP with a pair of hair dryers on a stock bottom end and heads. That's been proven. Anyway back to the 400. We won't go into the 351M performance because noone builds a 351M. Why only build 351 cubic inches when you can have 400?? The difference between the two is crank & pistons. Thats it, everything else interchanges. The main drawback besides weight & size is heads. The stock 2v heads suck on a 351c...imagine having another 50 cubic inches to draw the same amount of air through! There are 4V heads...but they're made for the 351c and noone makes a manifold to fit the 4V heads on the M block. You have to use adapters and even then it isn't a direct bolt-on. It will work though, and to be honest, there is quite a bit of power that can be had out of a 400 if the parts are matched. Who knows how strong the block is, however...if it's anythign like a 351w later model block, about 600 HP is all it's going to take on a regular basis. If the 400 does have one thing that is attractive about it; it is the fact that they have very long rods in them from the factory. 6.58" long...nearly as long as a 460's rods. Longer than most big block chevys (stock). But, the pin size is an oddball at .975" where all the rest of the Ford smallblocks are .912" and SBC engines are .927". That is where custom pistons are needed or from the above mentioned supplier. Many circle track guys are using the M rods and bushing the small ends down to .927" and using SBC pistons...for a long rod 351w. Seems to be working pretty well at the round tracks but I don't know what it would do for a drag or street engine other than add cost. I followed a build of a round track 351w engine a while back...guy used the M rods, N351 FRPP heads (which are a lot better than most people think....), iron windsor crank, SBC pistons and good intake & cam. Thing made a sizeable amount of power, and IIRC, it was a little more than 525 HP and fairly cheap to build. Will it fit in a Maverick? Well...you'll be one of the first to try it so let us know how it goes. My guess is that the heads will hit the shock towers without any type of manifolds or headers. Just keep in mind that it's as big as a 460. The towers are probably going to have to go, which means you're on your own for front suspension...which brings on a whole new set of problems. It ain't gonna be easy, but I would love to see the results!
Kinda what I was thinking.Either do a stroked "W" or just go w/a 460 ,if you gotta do any cutting,at least do it for a good engine.
Not sure who called the 400 with the m. It gets many debates as with the m means,,who knows Ford never gave official meaning other than "m"! The 351c 2v heads make a excellent street head, the 4v more a screamer as they don't turn on till 3500rpm. The M heads have the emission bumps. Best street head will be the Aussie 2v head, closed chamber with smaller ports. Aftermarket heads are putting a hurting on the OEM heads. The 400's have a lot of fighting old misconceptions. There is a lot you can do with them nowadays compared to the 80's. Is it worth it,,,up to the owner. Yes they did make the 400 in 73 with small block tranny drilled an the boss for the big block tranny. I've not seen one with the big block factory drilled, may have been done, just not seen one or heard of it yet. If you want a picture or numbers off one of them, let me know an I will post pic's and numbers of the one I have. I also have info on a couple of these in the west of USA. Would I put a 351m-400 in a Maverick, no, but he's looking at it and getting his data. Would I ever put a cheby engine in a Ford, NO, but it's done everyday. He may start and end up with a 385 series, or get the 100+ bucks scrap $$$ on the m's and buy a 302 and have the car smoking a lot sooner! It's his doing and it is good he hears all the angles.
Ford never said a word about what 'M' meant... I know that a 400 is technically not an 'M', however, it is identical to the 351M other than a very few key parts. So in my book, that makes the 400 an 'M' engine just as much as the 289-302 are called SBF Windsors, even though they were made in Cleveland! To have a peeve about the 400 falling into the 'M' family is like having a peeve about the whole "toMATO-TOmato" arguement. Some of the earliest 400s had the SBF bellhousing too... They are sought after blocks for some reason. Dave
Right. It's just easier to say big block or small block also. Like I said earlier, I have one of the dual pattern 400's, never thought I would find it, not sure what to do with it either!
Thought i would add this to dispell some of the info found here, If anyone is truly intrested i do have some orignal repair manuels and tons of other info on the Cleveland famly engines.This is not the best quality picture, but like i said if any one is truly intrested i will be glad to share all i have.
I see a variety of problems with info on that page. That SA Design book is not an original repair manual, nor is it accurate.
